34. Stony Brook University - Robert Pertusati - Associate Dean of Admissions

Stony Brook University

john_durante (00:02.186)

Welcome to the CAP everyone, the College Admissions Process Podcast. I am your host, John Durante, and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you today Robert Petrusati, who is the Associate Dean of Admissions at Stony Brook University. Now, Robert, how are you doing today and welcome.

robert_pertusati (00:18.873)

I'm doing great, thanks for having me. Anytime I get to talk about college admissions and Stony Brook, I'm always very excited because I've been doing this for a long time. Actually, it'll be 30 years next month and I'm at Stony Brook and I'm also an alum. So thanks for having me, I'm excited.

john_durante (00:29.974)

Wow, that's amazing.

Well, it is an honor and a pleasure to have you and I'm very excited today. I'm excited when I do every episode, but I'm particularly excited today because I too, Robert graduated from Stony Brook in the mid nineties and it has served me and so many other students so well. So it's a true pleasure and an honor. And I know that we're going to hear about all of the great things, particularly I want to hear also about the construction that's been done since the nineties. I know that since I've been around, there's a new stadium.

the Wang Center, I know that new residence halls have been built, not to mention dining facilities. So having said all that, Robert, what is it about Sonybrook that makes it so appealing for so many students to want to apply and ultimately attend?

robert_pertusati (01:17.021)

That's a really good question and I'm always excited to share that. And you're right, there's been a lot of construction since you graduated. I think there's still construction going on, which is a good sign because that means that the campus is still evolving, still growing. I think that's something that attracts students to our campus. The fact that we are, number one, one of the flagship schools within the SUNY system. That was a recent designation by the governor, certainly that's important, and that speaks to the quality of the programs, the opportunities for our students.

john_durante (01:22.12)

Ha ha.

robert_pertusati (01:44.997)

that people have brings from all over the world. Those are some of the things that attract students. Diversity is a big part, and diversity is in our student population, our faculty, our staff, diversity in our academic programs and offerings, diversity in the co-curricular experiences, which we all know are just as important as the academics, although my faculty may not want to hear that as much, but it's really a holistic process. Students are learning about life in college.

john_durante (02:05.766)

Hahaha.

robert_pertusati (02:10.745)

and they understand there are a lot of opportunities here, both in and beyond the classroom, and learning from people from all over the world. So I think that's a piece that really, really speaks to our students. It's a high quality education at a very affordable cost. So I think that's another piece that draws students to us. Our location certainly doesn't hurt. Being near a city like New York, but also in a suburban area, very...

New England type picturesque area close to some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. And I think when you come to the campus, and particularly now I'm seeing the cherry blossoms and all the blooms coming, you get an appreciation of just how beautiful physically the campus has been. A little different than when I was here certainly, and maybe when you were here John, but it has really evolved into a very picturesque campus. So it's sort of the best of both. It's the quality of the programs, the environment that is enhancing that student experience and students want to be here and I think that's important for our students are our gems and they really represent us and why they want to be here to future Seawolves. That's how our students are Seawolves.

john_durante (03:15.819)

Hahaha.

Absolutely and the quality of the campus but also the quality of the academics have certainly increased. Many people tease me and say that if I were to apply today I might not be considered for admissions so thank you to all of my friends that always tease me about that. Robert, how many applications do you review a year and do you represent a specific region?

robert_pertusati (03:39.153)

That's a great question. So I'm probably one of the last reads on the application. So this year, for example, we received more than 40,000, yes, 40,000 applications, exactly 40,000, 400, I think 34, something like that, for a freshman class of about 3,400. So it was a lot of reading. So we typically have counselors read by either major, certain academic disciplines, some geographic, because of the volume that we have, our counselors will read not just very specific areas.

john_durante (03:46.594)

Wow.

john_durante (03:52.157)

Ha ha.

robert_pertusati (04:09.093)

i read uh... whatever comes in that uh... in my box for the day so it could be uh... any major i'd typically spent a lot of time reading what we call the some of the restrictive majors those are the majors that have different criteria that will be higher in certain nuances for example the college of engineering spent a great deal my time reading those and those are among our most selective programs i also uh... read those file where counselors are reviewing and they decided

robert_pertusati (04:38.029)

I have to look at those before those decisions go out to make sure that we're consistent in what we're doing. So in addition to the first reads that I may do, particularly with the restrictive program, I also have to read all those applications that are not being offered admission before those decisions go out. So I'll be honest, it probably, this past year, somewhere around 12,000 applications went through my eyes, which is why we're these magnifying readers now.

john_durante (05:01.447)

Wow.

robert_pertusati (05:03.869)

Because everything's online, so there's no more paper. So it's always on the computer looking at screens. But, it's a wonderful process and it takes time. You know, we have a large, fairly large staff of about 12 readers. But when you have 40,000 applications and you're reading in a holistic review and looking at everything, it takes time. It does take time.

john_durante (05:22.998)

Well, thank you for that insight. And obviously you have a lot of checks and balances in place just to make sure that the process is done correctly so that you get the best class for Stony Brook each fall. So again, we appreciate that insight. And of course, you mentioned the School of Engineering. I know that Stony Brook is huge with the sciences and overall in the health fields, just to name a few. So many of my current students and former students are at Stony Brook or have graduated from Stony Brook and have had nothing but accolades and tremendous respect for the work that you guys do in admissions, the professors, and the overall Stony Brook family. It's a wonderful thing to be a part of. So having said all of that, can you walk, could you, so having said all of that, Robert, can you walk us through the process of how you evaluate so many applications? Give us a little bit more insight. Are there teams of people representing different regions? If so, how many applications is each group responsible for and anything else that you could share?

robert_pertusati (06:22.413)

And I just wanted to comment on your point because a lot of folks think we are just a STEM school. I just want to make sure everyone understands that while engineering programs are among our most selective undergraduate programs, we have far beyond STEM, our School of Communication and Journalism, our School of Marine and Atmospheric Sciences, our College of Business, College of Arts and Sciences, and our health professions. It's just, I think that's a big draw for students because as we know, students often change their mind and when you're not sure or you decide I might change my mind,

It's nice to know you're at a school where you have lots of options so that when you're ready to make that decision. But an inside view into how this process works, and we talk about this in a holistic review, and what does that mean? So holistic review means that we look at everything. There's not one particular factor that makes the final decision. It's a multitude, a multi-layer kind of approach. And there's an academic review and a non-academic review. So the academic review is looking at, number one, the strength of the high school transcript, the kinds of classes that students are taking, are they taking competitive classes?

Are they consistent in those choices and how they perform in those courses? And we compare a student's transcript with what's available in the high school. So the high school profile speaks to us about what's available. So we look at the student's academic record and we look to see, did they challenge themselves? And I always tell students, you know, always take the most challenging curriculum that you're capable of taking given what's available to you in your school. Well, we know it's available. We want to compare it to see, are you doing just that?

And we want to see if there is consistency. So that's the performance, the grades. How are you doing? And we often get that question, well, what about balance? What if I take all these highly competitive courses and I don't do well? And that's a conversation that students need to have with their, certainly with their parents and their school counselors and their teachers, about what is an appropriate level of challenge for my skill set or my ability or my time commitment, things like that. And that's a very personal thing for every individual student. And that's a conversation that needs to happen prior to students enrolling in those courses. But for us, given the fact that our pool is very competitive, we are looking for students who have a great deal of challenges. They're taking not just basic courses, but they're going above and beyond. Because when they come to a school like Stony Brook, that expectation will be there. It's not, it's a challenging program. Regardless of what major you pursue, you have to remember that you're not just studying your major, you're studying courses beyond the major. We're educating students for life, not just for a particular vocation in life.

So engineers still have to be able to communicate. Business majors have to do math. Communication majors still need to have some social sciences so that liberal arts core education is required of all. So we want to make sure that all of our students are well prepared for the rigor of the courses that they're going to take even beyond just their intended major. So what we're going to do in terms of the academic review is we look at typically the five core academic subjects. So what are those? English, history, science, math, and foreign language.

That's not to say we don't look at anything else. We look at everything. But those five courses really represent that core liberal arts curriculum that students will be taking here. So we want to make sure that they are well prepared. So we'll look at things like what level of math, what level of science, what level of history, and even foreign language. I mean, there's an expectation. Although engineers are not required to have foreign language on our campus, we still want to make sure that given the level of competition, that students are taking serious courses. And how do they do? And it's basically, we are not just taking the face value of a grade point average that's listed on a transcript. Because as you know, different schools have different weighting policies. There's no one standard way that schools grade. So we look at the courses and we see how they do. And we'll actually calculate a grade point average for each of those five subjects that I mentioned. And we use that in making our academic decisions in terms of students' preparation. I'll be honest, programming the STEM field, say biology, chemistry, physics, also really needs to have at least a pre-calculus course in high school before a student graduates. Pump it up a little bit higher for the student who's looking at an engineering or computer science program. In most cases, they really need to be at the calculus level in mathematics. And they should have the full breadth of science courses, biology, chemistry, and physics. Yeah, yes, students ask, well, I want to take AP Bio. I want to take AP Chem. And that's great, as long as you make sure you have the breadth of those science courses.

john_durante (10:14.83)

Sure.

robert_pertusati (10:39.309)

And that's a difficult conversation sometimes for students to have. I'm thinking about biomedical engineering. Why do I need physics? Well, you'd be surprised. In the program, there's a physics core component, particularly in the early stage, so that's why we look at those particular kinds of courses. It may not be as necessary for an English major to have physics, but again, when you're looking at the level of competition for the overall applicant pool, those who check off most of the boxes, if not all the boxes, move up higher in the evaluation process because we're comparing students to other students who've taken challenging courses regardless of what major because they might change their major.  An English major can certainly move to biology at some point and would need to have that kind of rigorous preparation. So the academic review is looking at the course level and the grades, the performance, and the consistency. We like solid grades, we like upward trends, the downward trends and those ups and downs. We know life happens. They need to be explained, whether it's in a personal statement.

john_durante (11:14.954)

Right. Sure.

robert_pertusati (11:35.405)

a recommendation or something. And that's really important. That trend is really, really important. And we look at, in some cases, the standardized exams, if students are taking those exams. I know we'll probably talk about that in a second. But we look and compare how students are doing, because that tends to be more standardized, even though there's conversation about whether it's equitable. But it's a more standardized view in terms of how students perform on that test, because everyone's taking the same exam.

So that's the academic review. But then there's the non-academic side, the essay, the recommendations, your activities report, all those things that talk to us about your grit, your level of motivation. From your perspective, because your essay is your voice, and your resume or activities report would be your voice, but those recommendations are someone else's voices about who you are. And we want to know, are you a good citizen? Are you going to be a good fit, right? Fit for our campus, academic fit, social fit, cultural fit, and a good representative of who we are as an institution. So those, when we look at the holistic review, those are the things that we're looking at in making that decision. I'll be honest, because I'm always very transparent. The academic review is so paramount in this process, because the worst thing we could ever do in college admissions is admit someone to our school who will not be prepared to be successful, because it's not fair to the student, and certainly not fair to the institution. So the academic fit is really, really critical, particularly when you're looking at a school as academically competitive as Stony Brook.

john_durante (13:01.526)

Well, I appreciate that comprehensive explanation, particularly talking about the importance of having the bio, the chemistry, and the physics, the total package, especially when you're applying to certain programs. But also if you're not applying to those more competitive programs because you never know if a student is going to want to switch majors. And you want that liberal arts education at Stony Brook. That's what you're about. You want people to be well-rounded. So I really appreciate that insight, Robert.

With more schools going test optional and the ease in which students can apply to multiple schools thanks of course to the Common App or the Coalition App, what shifts have you made in your admissions process with the increase in student applications?

robert_pertusati (13:45.181)

That's a good one. And we've done a lot of work and our decisions are very data driven. So we look at historical data to see what percentage of students will be admitted from certain majors in certain programs, and what will actually be yielding from that. So we have a historical picture of what's typically happened. Now, typical can always change, but it's been pretty consistent. And then the last two years threw a wrench in everything, because now we had COVID and then we had test optional.

And SUNY is still going to be test optional through the 2023 applicant cycle, but we don't know how much further it will. And we're hopeful, but we will find out, and we get that leadership from SUNY. But what it's done is we've seen an increase in applications from students who may not have applied before, because we publish everything on our website. So you will know where our middle 50% fall in their grade point average ranges and our testing. And so students have access to that information, and even the SUNY portal has that information.

students might be discouraged when they see those scores that are really, really high and they may not be applying. That's natural. You know, people don't want to be rejected so they tend to stay away. But when that became, particularly with the testing, it became optional. Students looked at, okay, well maybe I fit in that grade point average range, but I don't have to worry so much about that SAT or ACT testing range. So I think what we've talked with a lot of school counselors and more and more students were saying, okay, I'm going to take a shot. I'm going to apply.

I may not have thought so before, but now because they're not going to make me use those scores, I can have a better shot. And I think there was a lot of conversation about that. Certainly it's easier for students to apply to college now given the option, whether it's the Common App, the Coalition, the SUNY application, whatever. In most cases, you point and click and it's easy. You know, in my day, I looked at maybe four or five colleges and that was it. I'm talking with school counselors and families about looking at 15 to 20 and even more schools. And I often wonder, thinking...

john_durante (15:31.158)

Hahaha.

robert_pertusati (15:38.405)

But if you get admitted to most of those schools, you still have to make that decision and narrow down that list. If you just do that research upfront, knowing which schools you really are interested in might serve you better. I always say to students, you know, take a few that are target, reach, and safe schools, and, you know, have a few in each of those categories because you've done your homework. So what this has done is we've seen an increase in applications. We've seen an increase in students who didn't submit test scores, certainly. And what that does to us is we're not really sure, given the fact that students are applying to so many schools.

Where are we on their radar? And how we make decisions? And I think I've been talking with a lot of my colleagues across the nation about their wait lists. And because the fact that they can't get a sense of how serious the students are in their institutions because it's easy to apply and they're hedging their bets perhaps, and in many cases, we can't over-accept students because we have limited seats. And so the wait lists become larger and larger. And that's causing a lot of stress on students and the institutions.

We're not sure. And that May 1st deadline comes along. Is the class really set? We hope so. We think so. But then we know that students, I've been hearing things about students who are double and triple depositing in institutions, because they, again, want to have it back in case they change their mind. So I think what it's done to us is increased applications, certainly. Increased applications, students, we might not have received applications from because of the testing scores that we publish. And number two, it increased our weight.

wait list because we're not quite sure. We have to have that cushion to see if those students are not really on our radar. We have to be prepared to make sure we offer other students who are on our radar. I think that's that the major challenge I think for all of us and it causes a challenge for the students and families too because now they're on the wait list as opposed to getting a decision and now what?

john_durante (17:28.402)

Yeah, you raise a very interesting point and which leads me to another question in terms of demonstrated interest. So I get it. You are getting an increase of applications and you're not sure what percentage of the students that you're ultimately going to accept are for real that they're actually going to come to Stony Brook. So if a student is applying to Stony Brook and really wants to come to Stony Brook, what are some of the things that they do to show demonstrated interest, Robert?

robert_pertusati (17:54.605)

Absolutely, and typically, I mean, demonstrated interest is something that we're all looking at, but it doesn't, for us, it doesn't play as a direct role in the admissions process. It does a little bit more in the waitlist process. I'll explain in a second. I always tell students, you know, if we're on your radar, yes, it's good to let us know. There's a short answer question on the application. Students can indicate that. Sending us an email, we'll add that to your file that you're interested in, your top choice or your top five choice, whatever it is, and we'll certainly add that to the file.

but it comes really important in the wait list. So for example, we had offered a few thousand students a spot on the wait list, and they have to decide, yes, I want to be on the wait list or not. And then we had this priority wait list. So let us know, how serious are you? And if we get a call from the student or an email from the student or the school counselor or a principal about this student is really, really interested in Stony Brook, we can move that student to our priority wait list. And then the students who are on the priority wait list are the first group.

john_durante (18:43.51)

Hahaha.

robert_pertusati (18:52.913)

through which we'll take a look at when we have seats that open up. So that, that is an example of demonstrated interest, because whoever is advocating, whether it's self-advocacy from the student or from a counselor or principal, we'll add that to the list and it can help the students. So I always tell students, if it's, if we're truly on the radar and we are truly interested, it's okay to let us know. Don't let us know if we're, if we're not. Don't, don't, it's not a strategy, but it's just be honest and transparent about that, because that'll help everyone.

At the end of the day when we make an offer of admission, we're hoping that the student is interested in that offer.

john_durante (19:27.854)

Well, it's funny you mention that because each year there are deserving students that come and pay me a visit and unfortunately they're on a waitlist and they're very depressed about it and these are students that are truly so deserving. So it's always my honor and pleasure to write a letter. But what I want to point out is that what I see a lot of times is that students are on a waitlist and they think that they should just wait, which is not true. What they should do is if in fact they're on a waitlist for a particular school, that they really want to go to. In fact, if they are accepted, they are attending, they should absolutely reach out, like you said, a simple email, particularly if something new came up since they submitted their application. Maybe there was an initiative that they took part in. Maybe they, I don't know, won an award, whatever it may be, anything new, students that you could share with the admissions people in a simple email.

An email letting them know that yes, you're on the waitlist and you are absolutely interested in attending. In fact, if you're accepted you're gonna Go to that school. These are little things that you can do that will not hurt you It could only help you it certainly won't hurt you but it's astonishing How often we see students that think you know being on the waitlist is to just do nothing but wait So just another little piece of advice for the students out there

Robert, the other thing that people are a little nervous about is this test optional notion. Could you share with us the percentage of applicants that requested not to have their test scores used in the process?

robert_pertusati (20:57.513)

And that's a really great question and I think there's a lot of confusion, there's a lot of anxiety, should I do this, should I not do it. More than 50% of our first year applicant pool, it's actually getting closer to 60%, actually asked not to have their scores used in the process. Now some of them sent their scores anyway, but in the spirit of the process, regardless of whether they were good or bad, we do not use them. If a student on the application process, and they make that decision at the point of application.

john_durante (21:03.555)

Hehehe

john_durante (21:13.414)

Wow.

robert_pertusati (21:26.317)

If they tell us they're not going to want their scores sent, we will not use their scores in the process. Now I'll be honest, John, I saw a few students, actually more than a few, who made that decision and had perfect SAT scores. And I thought, well, that probably wasn't necessary. But okay, we honor their process. And as long as their grades are really good and everything else was in check, then we can go ahead and review and make a positive decision.

john_durante (21:42.268)

Ha ha ha.

john_durante (21:50.73)

I think Robert is fair to say to students and parents, if you have perfect SAT scores, it's okay to submit those scores. I just want to be very clear.

robert_pertusati (21:58.565)

Yes, and I'll go a little further. I have many conversations with students' families about, I tell them, look at the website. If your scores are within that range that the school published, that middle 50%, then chances are you have a good shot and may want to have your scores submitted because you're in that range. Now, I'll be honest, what people are probably not understanding is not everyone has submitted scores. Those ranges might actually be a little bit higher than what they would have been prior to test optional because now we're just looking at those who submit the scores and they've...

john_durante (22:12.77)

Right.

john_durante (22:24.939)

Very true.

robert_pertusati (22:28.029)

students who submit the scores are probably good scores, that's why they submit them. But again, if you fall in that range, it's a good shot, a good indicator that, yeah, you might want to think of that. And I tell students, take your SAT or ACT once, if you can, in junior year, see how you do. Take it again in the senior year, see how you do. Most of us super score, will take the highest reading and the highest math. So before you even have to make that decision, try it. See how you do before you make that decision, because you might surprise yourself.

Sometimes students just think they're terrible test takers and they get surprised when they do some preparation and realize, oh, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

john_durante (23:03.362)

Well, that's great advice. And again, if they fall a little short, well, it's test optional. You don't have to submit. So Robert, you keep talking about the middle 50%. So what is the average profile of the current freshman class?

robert_pertusati (23:20.589)

OK, buckle up. Because again, it speaks to the point about you and I probably not being admitted if we were applicants today. So I'll give you this. So this is the Fall 21 group. We're still tying up the Fall 22. I have a feeling it's going to be a little bit higher, more than a feeling. The middle 50% on the grade point average fell between 92 and 97, unweighted, which is, or for some schools, we're on a 4.0 scale, 3.7 to 4.0. Now the testing score for the SAT was 1320 to 1460, and on the ACT, 29 to 33. Now again, middle 50%, some were, you know, any bell-shaped curves, some were lower, some were higher. But the middle 50%, the bulk of them. And I tell students, you know, if you're submitting test scores, 1300 range is sort of a filter, somewhere in that range, or a 29 on the ACT, and low to mid 90s, unweighted grade point average, something that they should be looking at in terms of what we are seeing.

john_durante (24:00.95)

Right, right.

robert_pertusati (24:19.917)

in terms of success. Now, some programs are higher. I tell you, the computer science program was probably about 96 minimum GPA with a 1450 SAT. It depends on the program. Stem programs tend to be a little more competitive. We have a lot of volume, and there's some very key pieces that we're looking at in order to determine potential success.

john_durante (24:40.298)

And if a student falls lower than that middle range, is there anything else they can do to enhance their application, Robert?

robert_pertusati (24:45.309)

Absolutely, and I never want to discourage anyone from putting their name in the hand. I think that's really important because number one, we like upward trends. So maybe your first quarter senior grades are showing an upward trend or your first semester senior grades are showing an upward trend. Have those sent to us. Maybe you have, you initiated a new program in the school or outside of the school or a particularly unique volunteer experience that speaks to what's happening in the world today. Those things need to be included because we are...We're shaping our class. We're not just looking for students in one particular discipline or with one certain category of grades or testing. We were looking for students who were going to be good citizens who were going to contribute something meaningful to the campus. And so any information that a student can give us about what they are doing or what they've done, and it could even be a job. You're holding a part-time job. Maybe you're helping the family through some economic times or personal times. Those are things that talk about character, and character is so important because you have to be motivated, you have to be willing to work really hard to be successful. We see students who look perfect on paper, and they get to college and they sort of just sit back. And college is not some place you can just sit back. You have to be proactive. You have to be engaging. You have to do a lot of work. And a lot of it is on the student. No one's calling up and saying, did you do your homework last night? Did you study for that exam?

john_durante (26:09.174)

Yeah

robert_pertusati (26:11.849)

It's on the student, and for the first time, it's new for them. They are in control of their own destiny. So that transition is challenging. So having a student who is able to multitask and time manage well, those are the key ingredients to success in college. So if you tell us about some of those things that talk about that, that can help us in making these important decisions.

john_durante (26:36.49)

Well, that's terrific insight and great pieces of advice. Thank you so much. And of course, if a student does not choose to submit their SAT or ACT scores with their application, how does that influence merit scholarships or financial aid? I understand, of course, that need-based financial aid is based on the FAFSA information. But I'm wondering if there is a disadvantage in terms of getting merit-based scholarships if a school, of course, like Stony Brook, is, in fact, test optional.

robert_pertusati (27:02.385)

That's a great question. I think that's caused a lot of anxiety for students and families. Now let me begin by saying we hold students harmless. And I think that's really important. So that if a student submits test scores, great. If a student does not submit test scores, same, great. We don't determine the scholarship based upon an SAT if you're not going to take an SAT. So what we do is, remember I talked about those five academic subjects? That's what we use in the process for determining merit-based scholarship. So.

john_durante (27:26.294)

Yes, yes.

robert_pertusati (27:31.141)

It was overall grade point average and also the grades in those five subjects. I can get very much into the weeds, but it changes year to year. This year, for example, a 95 grade point average was the minimum grade point average for a student to receive a merit-based scholarship. And people probably go, my goodness, that's so high. Well, general admission is not that much different than that. So we have to be a little bit higher than general admission. But also on those five subjects, typically,

john_durante (27:48.383)

Hehehe

robert_pertusati (27:58.577)

Four out of those five subjects had to be 95 or higher to get a certain level. I think if we had three out of the five, there was a lower level. And that's how we got into those difficult decisions in terms of what type of merit base. But it was basically driven by the course grades and the overall grade point average for those students on that high school transfer. And that's why it's so important that we look very deeply at the progress in those courses over grades nine, 10, 11 in some cases first quarter, first semester of senior year.

john_durante (28:31.382)

Yeah, and I appreciate that and I love when you said, we hold students harmless. I think that's great. Something important for the students and their parents to hear because it really is so true. How important, Robert, are students' courses in progress and grades in their senior year? Ha ha ha.

robert_pertusati (28:45.725)

That's an excellent question. I'm so glad you asked. Very, very important. Senior year is just as important as every other year in high school, if not most important. We want to see where the students are currently at. Are they still taking challenging courses? I'll give you another example. And going back to our engineering students, a student who is looking at computer science or mechanical engineering, we need to know, are you at least taking calculus and physics by the time you're in senior year? Well, if you're only doing it in senior year and you don't send those first quarter grades or the first, at least the program of what you're taking,

how will we know and if we'll have to request it. Like, excuse, you know, we need to know, are you taking those courses? But I think it's also important to understand that we want to make sure that students just didn't do everything great in grades nine, ten, eleven. So, okay, senior year comes, I'm going to have a little senioritis going along. No, we want to maintain or if not go higher with the expectation that students are progressing through their academic progress. And I'll go even further, because then, you know, as you know, the admission decisions go out typically, you know, by early spring.

john_durante (29:16.462)

Great point.

robert_pertusati (29:45.345)

And so some students might think, well, OK, I've got my admission decision letter. I might have gotten it in January, February, or March. Oh, that AP course I was taking, maybe I don't need to finish that course, and I want to try to drop the course. No, no, don't do that. Because, as you know, John, when we admit a student, we expect the student to maintain the same level of challenge that they were taking as the point of admission, as a point of graduation. So when we get that final high school transcript, and we do,

john_durante (29:58.398)

Right.

robert_pertusati (30:12.989)

We look to make sure that there's no significant difference in the coursework that the students were taking. If there is, then we take a look to see if that admission decision will sustain. In most cases, they do. But sometimes we have a student who drops the course. I would say, if that's going to happen, let us know in advance. Tell us. I'm having an issue with the class or there's something going on. Before it becomes a problem, let us know in advance. And then we can say, OK, you reached out to us. We're expecting this.

john_durante (30:13.087)

Yeah

robert_pertusati (30:42.253)

us finding out by simply seeing the final high school transfer with no explanation. So I think that's important. So senior grades, very important. Senior program, very, very important and should need, it needs to sustain at the level that the student was performing all along.

john_durante (30:55.586)

Well, those are great points and it's important students to put your best foot forward, build ramps during your four years of high school, but maintain that high academic standard, not only in 9th, 10th, and 11th grade, but as Robert explained in senior year. I think that's great, Robert, and again, this is why I asked the question, because I just want the students and the parents to hear it straight from people like yourself that ultimately make the decision. So we really appreciate all of your help and insight.

Robert, what are some examples of college essays that really stuck with you and when you read them you thought, wow, this student needs to attend Stony Brook University. And perhaps could you give an example of such a letter?

robert_pertusati (31:33.465)

And let me begin by saying these essays are very, very important. Why are they important? Because this is an opportunity for a student to tell us something about them, why they'd be a good fit, what they've done, who they are, what their character is, who influences them, all these things from the student voice. You know, students can change their transcript, hopefully not. Students can change their testing, hopefully not. The recommendations come from someone else, but this is the opportunity. So we do two things. We want to know your story.

john_durante (31:53.895)

Ha ha.

robert_pertusati (32:02.345)

And we want to know what your communication skills are, because regardless of what you're going to be doing as far as a major, you still have to have strong communication skills. Texting, lingo, and language is not going to fly in a college essay. So well written. We're not looking for a Pulitzer Prize winning piece of literature, but an honest voice. And I think that's important. So I think when I talk with folks, I read these essays, and we read a lot. The things that stand out the most are the honest description as to who they are.

and what the influences were. And very often, students will talk about whether it's a person in their immediate world that's influenced them, or whether it's someone in government or in a job or whatnot who really shaped them or actually got them to ask questions. And very often, students will accept information that's sent to them because it comes from an authority that they admire. I'm not even going to say from social media, because I don't want to go there. But it's someone that they admire, and so they accepted it as truth.

And when students question that, and there's someone who influenced them to encourage them to question, and I've had students in the rest of the states talk about that, this was my belief. This is what I thought. And these are the reasons why I thought this. And then I met this person, or this person who was in my life, and during this course of two or three years that I've known this person, got me to think a little different. Got me, if nothing else, got me to question why I thought that way, and was that information true, and what was the source of that information?

So when a student was talking about that and allowed that student to learn something about themselves as well as the world, that was really, really helpful. And advice I give students is make sure that when you are doing so, and you're talking about this revelation that you've learned, or this person who served this influential role, make sure you not only talk about that role or that person, but again, bring it back to you. What did you learn? How did it influence you? How did it shape who you are?

Because I always give the example, students will talk about this, maybe it's a grandfather who came to this country, had to learn the language, worked two or three jobs to support the family, was really motivated and worked hard. And I'm thinking, well, I'd like to admit grandpa, but grandpa's not a client. Student is, how did this shape who? What did you learn? Did this change your character? Did this make you a hardworking individual? Did this person serve as a role model that you wanna really mirror as you make these important decisions in life?

john_durante (34:13.494)

Hahaha

robert_pertusati (34:26.353)

That's what we want to know, and very often students forget that piece. They're, maybe they're, they're so modest they don't want to brag. Maybe they are not sure that it would be, it would come across in a negative way. But no, this is your story. And whatever story it is, it doesn't have to be you've, you've done something in a third world country or you have found a cure for a disease. It's true to who you are and it's shaped who you are. It's meaningful and it's important to us. So understand what that story is and be prepared to effectively articulate that story to us. And make sure that the grammar is correct, and the spelling is correct, all the mechanical things. But also have other folks look at it. English teachers, certainly, your school counselor, parents, maybe your friends are not the best judge of your essay. But get some other feedback from folks to make sure. Because this is that professional presentation, the piece that you have direct control over in the application process. And for us, it's the fun part. We get to learn about students that way.

Yeah, your transcript is what it is, your testing is what it is, but this is where your story comes out. It's really exciting.

john_durante (35:30.218)

Well, that's great advice and you're right. The essay is the opportunity for the students to show their character, their personality, and what they're interested in. So it's, and it's unique to each student. So it's not a one size fits all in terms of how to approach the essay, but that importance of showing off your personality, what you value is extremely important because you don't necessarily get it in other parts of the application, such as the transcript.

However, let me ask about the activity sheet, because the student's activity sheet, of course, is another piece of the application. Robert, what are the kinds of things that you're looking for beyond the work they did in the classroom when looking at that activity sheet?

robert_pertusati (36:13.713)

Great question. So again, going back to fit and level of commitment and being able to multitask and manage your time. So the activities report talks to us about what you've done, what your passions are certainly and we're looking to make sure that there's longevity. So that's not something you just joined in senior year. So it's something you felt very strongly about, you've been involved for a couple of years and it's been a developmental process. Perhaps you started off as a member of an organization.

You maybe took on a leadership role, maybe you initiated a program for that institution. That's what we want to see. It's not going to be a laundry list of everything that you've done since exiting the womb, but rather those few things that are really important that you spend some time on. And this could also be employment. You might have a job that you might have in high school for a couple of years, or summer job, or whatever. That's a co-curricular experience. It talks to us about what you do outside of class, how you manage your time.

How engaged are you as an active citizen in your community? Those are things that are important because if you have those experiences in high school, you're more likely to have those kinds of experiences in college. And we have seen that students who are involved beyond the classroom are more successful. They have a higher grade point average and a higher retention rate, that is they persist. Because they're engaged, they're involved. You know, college is more than just going to class. It's learning about yourself, learning about others, finding new opportunities.

And so students who have those experiences are more open to continuing those kinds of experiences, or expanding those kinds of experiences. And it really talks to us about how you can multitask and how you can manage your time. And those are critical skills for success in college. So choose them wisely. And talk to us about those things that are important to you, because not only do we want to see that, we might, if you have an opportunity to have an interview with an admissions counselor or an alum or a faculty member or whoever,

They are going to talk with you about it. They're going to ask you questions. And when we see the passion in the students' eyes about what they've done, it's clear that it's meaningful. And that's what we want to know. We want to know the meaningful things that you've done and why.

john_durante (38:18.462)

Well, that's great advice and great insight. Again, I love the way you explained it. You said that there's a correlation between students that are engaged in activities and how well they're going to do in their academics and in life. So that's a great piece that you shared in terms of just looking at the overall application. And it's great insight in terms of how you as an admissions representative look at the total holistic package of the student application. So thanks, Robert, for that insight again.

And so what about students aspiring to play sports in college? What advice do you have for prospective student athletes in terms of making their intentions to play known?

robert_pertusati (38:56.733)

Number one, always remember you are a student athlete, which means you're a student first, and your academics and your student experience is really paramount. But yeah, certainly, given the fact that we're in a Division I Athletic League program, students really need to kind of understand the level of competition, because our coaches are recruiting pretty early in the process. So I think it's important for students who are interested in Stony Brook and in any school to make their interests known. There are some guidelines of when they can do that, certainly, but...

It's important that they put themselves in the hat if they're interested in a particular school, particularly in that sport. And making sure they follow the guidelines and the processes and the parameters that are going to be looked at. And very often that happens earlier than some of our general students who are applying because, you know, many of our students who apply, the application opens up August 1st, typically in the senior year. And most of our students apply typically by December. But, you know, students are going to be committing, they need to know a little bit earlier in terms of if there's a sport involved.

So I think it's important to make that known. And typically, the student's coach can reach out to the coach as well. The student can reach out to the institution. Our coaches can't reach out until a certain point happens in their academic career. But yes, communication is very, very important. And at least sharing the level of interest with the institution will be very, very important to make sure that you're in the timeline to be considered. Because our coaches, particularly at our level, are looking to fill up their teams pretty good, pretty quickly, pretty early in the process. So for the student who waits till the end, they may not get a spot on the team. So I think that's important to be early, to be proactive, and to be open in the communication stream.

john_durante (40:36.534)

That's important advice. Thank you again Robert. And lastly, what are the top three pieces of advice you would give a student and their parents who are getting ready now for the college process?

robert_pertusati (40:47.569)

This is only three? Okay, I'll try to hit three. Number one is, sometimes you have to go with your gut. And just because, you know, oh, friends have looked at a particular school and they liked it or didn't like it, doesn't mean you're going to have that experience. It's a very personal experience for each individual student. And sometimes students make their decisions on things that you would never think seem logical. I had a student who said, I couldn't make my decision to come to a certain school because students...

john_durante (40:49.634)

Hahaha.

robert_pertusati (41:13.597)

used umbrellas when it rained on campus. And it could be something quirky like that. They don't want to see umbrellas on campus. But I think for students and parents, and now that we're in this environment of being able to be more transparent and open and having folks on the campuses again, really the visitation is really important. And I want to give this advice because students, when you're coming to campus for a campus tour, make sure you, the student, ask questions of the tour guides. The tour guides are going to be honest and upfront there with students at the institution. But let the students ask the questions. Sometimes parents get involved and they ask the questions that the students should be asking. Sometimes there's a false sense of security when we're in an unfamiliar place with familiar people. We feel, oh, I can do this. I'm comfortable here. But you know what? The students are not going to school with their parents. The students are probably not going to school with their friends or people that they know.

So it's important that they learn to become their best self-advocates. So helping the students understand that they need to understand what are good questions to ask and what are reasonably good answers to the questions that they're asking to make sure they feel confident. We will answer the questions of both students and parents, not a problem. We want to make sure students lead the process. They should be leading the application process, so they're doing the application, they're writing their essay, they're doing all that legwork, and they're asking the question and they call the admissions office or they email the admissions office with questions. We see a lot of times that the students are taking a back seat letting other people do that. So my first advice is make sure the student is in the driver's seat being the self-advocate, number one. Number two, really take a long hard look at cost. I'm not saying you should make decisions simply based upon the sticker price of an institution, but understand what goes into that cost.

And if you're getting a scholarship, is it a renewable scholarship? And what are the criteria for renewing a scholarship each year? Is it reasonable? Is it attainable? That's important. And I think the number three thing is to breathe. Don't forget to breathe. Sometimes we get so stressed out about finding the right school. You know, you think about Long Island students in particular. You know, they tend to apply to the same 45 colleges across the country, a lot of which are in the Northeast. But if you think about, look at some of the schools that, if you're willing to go

john_durante (43:11.684)

Hahaha.

john_durante (43:22.315)

Ha ha.

robert_pertusati (43:27.761)

couple hundred miles northeast, well, if you go west or south, the same amount of miles, you might find some gems and maybe the competition is not so intense. So the breathing part comes into thinking outside of the box, don't get caught up with what you think you should be doing or what other people are doing, think about what's best for you. If you take a moment and step back, you read the information, you check out our websites, you talk to people on the campuses, read the school newspapers, find out what the issues are, how folks are responding to those issues, eat the cafeteria food, your first two tests of college revival, all of that, and you breathe and you just go to step back, it'll all fall into place. And it's a logical process. I know being in this process for more than 30 years, it seems easy for me and yeah, it changes, but understand that there's some wonderful choices out there and.

john_durante (44:04.721)

Yeah.

robert_pertusati (44:19.601)

Don't get overstressed by, I can only look at these few schools and that's it. Because there's some great gems out there and you'll open your eyes to some really important opportunities if you do that. Keep that lens really open and clear and you're breathing while you're doing it. Those are my three pieces of advice. I have more but I'll stop.

john_durante (44:38.275)

Well Robert, those are tremendous pieces of advice. I really cannot thank you enough for your time, your expertise. We really appreciate it. As you know, this is going to help a lot of students and their parents through this process. So we can't thank you enough. I hope to have you again soon. And it was a real pleasure.

robert_pertusati (44:55.677)

The pleasure was mine, all mine. Thank you.

john_durante (44:57.846)

Thank you, Robert.