155. University of Wisconsin-Madison - Inside the Admissions Office: Expert Insights, Tips, and Advice - Andre E. Phillips - Director of Admissions and Recruitment

The University of Wisconsin:

John Durante:

Welcome to the CAPP, the College Admissions Process podcast. I am your host, John Durante, and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you today, Andre E. Phillips, who's the Director of Admissions and Recruitment at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Dean Phillips, thank you so much for being here today. I'm really excited about this conversation. How are you?

Andre E. Phillips:

I'm wonderful. Thanks so very much for having me on. Looking forward to visiting with you.

John Durante:

Thank you so much. It's an honor and a pleasure, and we're looking forward to it as well. So Dean Phillips, let me ask you, can you give us a brief introduction about yourself? How long have you been in admissions, and how did you end up in such a position? Ha ha. Ha

Andre E. Phillips:

How much time do we have?

John Durante:

ha ha.

Andre E. Phillips:

I actually, in fact, I'm both proud and humble to say this past September I celebrated 40 years in the profession.

John Durante:

Wow.

Andre E. Phillips:

I spent my first 27 years at the University of Chicago. And it's there that I had the great fortune to work with both mentors and colleagues to really learn the profession. And in some ways, 40 years ought to suggest that I've grown up doing this work. My first 27 at Chicago was great. That I could meet. colleagues from across the country on both sides of the desk. I took a brief hiatus when I thought I could be my own boss. I learned that I was not my best employee.

John Durante:

Hahaha.

Andre E. Phillips:

So I took the opportunity to join a colleague and friend. who returned home to our home state as the newly minted director of admissions and recruitment here at University of Wisconsin-Madison. And when I took that job, I thought, okay, I'm going to help a friend and this will be a nice bridge to think about the next thing. And as most of us do, well, I could do that for the next three to five years.

John Durante:

Hehehe

Andre E. Phillips:

May 1 will mark 12 years here at the UW, as it's affectionately known. And it's been an extraordinary period for me. I've been in this leadership role as the director since August 2016. So we've been able to do a great deal here in ways much like my previous role.

John Durante:

Well, thank you so much for the introduction and congratulations on 40 years, 27 at the University of Chicago. And now here you are at UW again, as the director of admissions and recruitment. They are obviously very lucky to have you as are we. So Dean Phillips, let me ask you, I know that UW has strong academic programs, just to name a few, education, business, the sciences and engineering, but what is it, what is it about the university at Wisconsin Madison that sets it apart and makes it so appealing for so many students to want to apply and ultimately attend?

Andre E. Phillips:

That's such a great question. And I say that to really frame what I think is at its core. And that it's a place that at once challenges learners, particularly our young people in the schools and colleges, the undergraduate schools and colleges. But it's also a place that is extraordinarily careful in creating a learning environment for students to grow. And I think of this as someone who's not from the university, but sits in a position where we select and we are both fortunate and humbled by the fact that there are students who want to be in this community. And I want to spend a quick second there because it's really at the heart of what happens. And ultimately, young people are in classes and they're preparing for examinations to showcase what they've learned. But along the way, the spirit, the enterprise of teaching and learning and growth beyond what happens in the classroom. if there was a secret sauce, and I say this carefully, it's this notion of community that extends beyond the classroom. So that's a lot of words. But in trying to capture what makes the difference, I could then go on and talk about the beauty of the campus and the richness of our community here in Madison. We're fortunate that, depending on where you stand, On campus, you can look down and see the state house. And that matters. You're a mile away. That matters. The fact that we have a long history of progressive engagement, in fact, our ethos. The Wisconsin, you likely will hear folks talk about the Wisconsin experience. That's informed by the Wisconsin idea. These things are intentionally play out as I suggested, both in the classroom and beyond. And when you mix those things together with a lively life, rich and layered life that young people can lead, it translates to an exciting environment that young people want to be a part of and we're fortunate because of it.

John Durante:

Well, we appreciate that, a place that challenges learners where you are careful in creating a learning environment where all students grow. You talk about community, you talk about your spirit. And I have to mention, I read a statistic that 95% of your first year students return. 95% is your retention rate, which is an astonishing number, a testament to the great work that you do in admissions, but also the work that the university does to foster that spirit, that sense of community to keep students wanting to come back. So we congratulate you and your staff on that, Dean Phillips. So let's talk about the admissions process a little bit. Let's unpackage it. What is the admissions process like at Wisconsin and what should students and parents keep in mind when they're applying?

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure, sure. I think the first thing that I hope parents and students and those who support young people will think about is that it's holistic. And a number of places are holistic. And so there's nothing different or new about that notion. But it's in how we review, think about the snapshot that applicants present. And I really want to start there in thinking about what I think are the moments or the submissions. The moment that students sit and think about the writing of students that they really are reflecting. The students are really reflecting on what it is I'm going to say and why are they asking, why are they suggesting these are the questions. So reflective writing is really important. I would argue if we were to rank order, the part of the application that students control the most is the response to the two bits of writing. And I often say when I visit and share a session, students and parents should be aware, two kinds of writing. We are on the Common Application, as are many of our peers, and we give students a battery of choices. The Extended Essay is just that. We want to really look at how students approach a prompt where they effectively are telling a story. They're responding to a prompt, but they're telling a story. So writing carries a great deal of weight. That's one kind of writing, right? If you think about it in some ways, I think about it this way, that's thoughts in action. The other kind of writing, and this is a tip for students, is to think about the question, why are you interested? And in this case, why are you interested in UW Madison? What is it about this university that you've learned, you've heard, you've read about, you've watched an older sibling or maybe even a parent or relative who's an alum? And they have their stories, and they have their reasons why. But what have you? little Andre wants to go to college, what resonates to you? And I say this respectfully, right? Hear this. It's not your mom's experience, it's not your dad's experience, it's not grandpa's experience, it's going to be your experience. And you don't have to have figured it all out. In fact, college by its very nature, no matter where you look. is not about having an endpoint, it's about how do you build your foundation for your future. And so being able to, in a paragraph or two, capture what you're excited about resonates with me and my team as we read. Now, in the rank order of what's most important, clearly we wanna know how students have navigated what's been available to them in their high school. And I will say right here, right now, that doesn't mean that we're looking to see that you've taken all of the incredible advanced courses. It would be great if we saw a student like that, but it's rare if ever. But what we do want to see, that students have challenged themselves, that they've listened to their school counselor, they've listened to the advice of their school principal or whoever has said, if you want to prepare, prepare yourself for college. Not this one in particular, but just to go off to the environment of higher learning. Here are some things that we say at our high school that will put you in a position to be ready to find success. So I say the transcript gives us a good idea that students A, have challenged themselves and B, have found success and that combination matters to us here at Wisconsin. So if we were ranking things, writing and understanding that you're submitting two different kinds of writing, because that second piece is very personal. You know, Lil Andre, why do you want to go to college generally and specifically? Wisconsin is on your list. And so Lil Andre. goes off to do his homework and he learned some things. And maybe little Andre might speak about it. I can't wait for football Saturday because I wanna be a part of that. And I wanna be in that stadium that houses almost 80, that's okay, but that's probably not your number one reason for wanting to go off to university. So talk about your number one reason, maybe even your number two reason, you wanna be in a certain kind of. environment and oh yeah on those days when I need to blow off steam I want to go room for the badgers. You can mention that but you don't want to dwell on that. I would say the third and last element that carries weight in the process would be the recommendation from an educational source. I often speak of this as colleagues in the enterprise. I'm sure as you well know, when your math instructor or your history instructor, they're committed to the subject matter. They pay attention to how students, your students navigate the courses and how they over time progress. Those recommendations from teachers who can say, again, you know that little Andre, he's in this math class. I gotta tell you, he's not my best math student. He's not. However, here's what you need to know about little Andre that appeals to me daily. He shows up to class ready to learn. He's willing to take on the challenge. He has enough confidence that on those days when he doesn't get the answer right, and little Andre most days, he doesn't get this math stuff right, but here's what's endearing. about L'Andre. And that recommendation would go on to talk about purpose, willingness to learn. Those kinds of things come through in a recommendation. Now, I'm going to stop talking about L'Andre, because I've given you one too many examples. But it's the person that we are thinking about as we build Leach and Mow in class. And those elements, transcripts, writing and writing that's done on behalf of students are all intertwined as an important element of the review.

John Durante:

Well, thank you so much for explaining your holistic review. I really appreciate how you talked about the different parts and what you're really looking for while providing advice and explaining how, as you put it, you're looking to build that incoming class. We really appreciated Dean Phillips. And with schools receiving far more applications than ever before, how do you determine the number of students to accept, wait list, and even deny when you have far more applications from deserving students than your seats available.

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure, sure. So we have this big blackboard, and we stick some pins in the board, and at some point, we shake the board. I could go on with this.

John Durante:

Ha Ha Ha

Andre E. Phillips:

Very seriously, easily the most difficult part of my work and that of my team is choosing. some students and unfortunately saying no to others, when those students that we are saying no to have very similar aspirations as those students that we will say yes to. Away from that in a very pointed way, in the community here, we have eight schools and colleges. So we have everything from nursing to... and the largest of our eight schools and colleges, the College of Letters and Science, where over 60% of all of the majors are found. So what we're really trying to do from a school college perspective first, is to understand who the faculty believe can find success. And that's again, beyond just some numeric. It goes without saying that we want to know that students have prepared themselves well. We want to know to the best of our ability that students have some idea what it's going to mean to be in a collegiate environment. And with the exception of business and engineering, we're a community that says you don't have to have figured out who you're going to be, what you want to be. before you even get to university. And while that's something of an overstatement, where it really comes into play is how we make certain selections. There is the academic layer that is the priority and the application gives us a good look into student preparedness. The second layer, however, is understanding what we've learned about a candidate and how that aligns with what our faculty in the various programs are saying to us, these things matter. And in selecting, we are then trying to find some alignment between aspiration and expectation. And that's an important component. Let me spend one quick final second on this, because this is the, I think in a way the moment, particularly when we hear, we make our decisions and we hear from a family member. I can't believe that my son or my daughter or my, and these are the toughest for me, I have to say, I get a call from a grandparent and I will be the first to admit,

John Durante:

Ha ha.

Andre E. Phillips:

I'm immediately at a disadvantage when I'm talking to grandma or talking to grandpa. But what I'm suggesting is this. We go into this knowing that because of our restrictions on space, we're gonna find ourselves having to make the tough decision to say yes to some and no to others. And so, For us, it's trying to find that alignment that I've referred to previously, and that alignment presents itself, obviously, in the writing, in the course selection and results, but it also exists elsewhere. It exists in the recommendations and the manner in which those of you who interact with young people day in and day out will tell the story. But it also, and this I try to share as a last thought, is really important around, again, something I said a moment ago that I returned to, admission to UW-Madison, and we're not the only ones, I want to make sure I clarify that. But admission here is also in the spirit of how do we build a learning environment? And the learning environment has an element of, well, do we have needs? As an example, every year we've got to have at least one oval player. Every year we've got to have at least one drum major. And that's a part of it. But it really is who's in the community? What are students thinking about? And how do we learn this? How do they spend their time? What do they invest their time in? And so when we look at that activities page, That tells us something, and I'll give you a really bad example, but my team gives me the business about this all the time, so I'm going to share it with you and your listeners. So, I grew up a huge baseball fan, and to this day, I'm a huge baseball fan. When I came for my job interview here at UW-Madison 12 years ago, I'm standing in front of the team, and I think the question was about, do you have hobbies? And I launched into this story about my love for baseball. And I'm done feeling really good, talking about growing up a White Sox fan, having been born and raised in Chicago, you're born into your baseball team, right? So I had to explain that I was a White Sox fan, not a Cubs fan. So I'm done with that and I move on to the next question. And someone, a member of the team at the time said, maybe you're not aware, but we don't have a baseball team here at UW-Madison. Now, I had to pause because, A, I knew that. I was disappointed to have learned that in my research. But it occurred to me that the member of the team had missed the five minutes I spent talking about the love of baseball, not the love of UW-Madison's baseball team, which didn't exist. So why do I tell you that story? I think what's really important is how we listen to young people talk about or present not only their aspirations, but the things that matter to them. And so we are, as a team, we try to understand if a student talks about playing checkers or chess or whatever it is, that there's a reason, there's some investment. And I hope that our teammates and our... in our review can begin to imagine at least for a moment what contributions that chess player might make to the broader learning community.

John Durante:

Well, we appreciate the insight. I particularly enjoyed how you talked about institutional needs. You always need an oboe player. You need at least one drum major. And of course, the University of Wisconsin-Madison is so popular that you get so many students from out of state. So I was curious, is there a maximum in terms of the percentage of out of state students that you're able to accept?

Andre E. Phillips:

Great question, great question. We are, and I say this all the time, we are Wisconsin first in everything we do. Our governing body, our Board of Regents, has put in front of us the expectation that each enrolling class will have at least 3600 students. from the state of Wisconsin. And our goal is to try to cover the state. There are 72 counties and we aspire to have representation from every county in the state. We're trying to, if you will, we're trying to paint this glorious picture. But 3,600 students, and I will say over the last several years, we've gone over that number a few, or is it? Dear friend of mine would say, we put an extra Wisconsin advertiser on the table with a few more students from Wisconsin. We also have, which is interesting for us, and again, we're not the only institution, we have a reciprocity agreement with the state of Minnesota. And my friends down in Illinois will say, well, why don't, I mean, we're your next door neighbor, why don't we have reciprocity?

John Durante:

Hehehehehe

Andre E. Phillips:

And my response is, well, Illinois wasn't sitting in the back of the pool hall when that decision was made, which is really not true. But the fact is it's a wonderful relationship with the state of Minnesota and our enrollment there fluctuates a bit. But here's what's important about the combination of our commitment to our state and our reciprocity agreement. And that will, in effect, give us a little bit more than 50% of our enrolling class from our commitment to our state and our reciprocity partners in Minnesota. And it fluctuates a percentage or two each year depending on how the enrollment of admitted students will settle for us. Last thing I'll say, and this is the present year, we are still working on this class. Our overall goal is to enroll approximately 8,100 students. And we will have our eye on, first and foremost, are we meeting the commitment to Wisconsin? Are we, in a similar way, meeting the commitment in the reciprocity agreement? And then what does that mean for not only our non-res US population, but our international cohort as well? And so we are not only looking at our states across the nation, we are thinking about our engagement around the globe.

John Durante:

Well, we really appreciate that insight. I can't thank you enough for sharing that you try to, that you try to accept at least 3,600 students from the great state of Wisconsin and you're cognizant of spreading out, if you will, sharing the wealth over all of the counties in the great state of Wisconsin, but I also appreciate you talking about the reciprocity that you have with the state of Minnesota. And I share this again and I'm repeating this again because I want students to know that oftentimes if you are rejected and you have great grades, you get down on yourself. It might have something to do with something that's completely out of your control simply because of the fact that you're an out-of-state student. So again, Dean Phillips, I really appreciate that you gave this insight so people can understand some of the nuances of the application process. So I can't thank you enough. And can you share the average profile of your current freshman class, and what could prospective students do to enhance their overall application if they should fall a little lower than that mid 50% range?

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure, sure. I think there are two characteristics, if I may, I want to run with your question, because I think it's a really important one for your listeners to hear, that also carries weight when we look at our pool from top to bottom. Characteristic number one are students who, in fact, are taking. good advantage, if not full advantage, of the resources, both inside and outside of the classroom of their high schools. And so that's a characteristic or an overarching ideal that we have, and students, our applicants are matching it. And one of the real examples that resonate for me, and perhaps you can think of this as a tip as an applicant, As much as we get excited about seeing students in the more challenging classes and they're doing well, and those things matter, I like the voice that applicants present that suggest something about their citizenship. And that's the other piece of this that really matters. And I'll give you an example of a student I read just before we finished our. our application decision making. And this has stuck with me for weeks now. This was a student who was writing about their interest in the UW. And they very candidly noted that they didn't know what they wanted to major in. And I think that sometimes students have a fear that if they haven't figured out what they want to major in or they don't know what they want to be when they graduate or when they grow up, that they fear. But this student had a certain way of talking about their desire to be well-educated. It had nothing to do with what they wanted to major in. But the attraction to them, to us, as an institution, is that they had lots of choices and that they could imagine themselves, and this student went on to talk about, to really show that they had done some research, about one of the research of one of the faculty members. And then in the next paragraph to talk about a lab that yet another faculty member ran and co-taught with graduate students, and how appealing and exciting it was to imagine themselves being in what I will term a community of teachers and learners. And so the second characteristic that appeals is students who are excited about learning. which is fundamentally different than, again, unless they want to pursue engineering or business. And you can also be undecided about business to be able to talk about the enterprise of scholarship, which is something that for many, many, many years has mattered a great deal to me, both here and in my former staff salon.

John Durante:

Well, we appreciate that. And I want to repeat one of the things that you said about an applicant. It was a student that did his research. He talked about two separate faculty members, one in particular that actually ran his own lab. I'm assuming it was in the supplemental essay where he talked about these two professors and he showed his demonstrated understanding of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, which is something that stood out to you. So I think that's a great piece of advice for students to hear and their parents. that when you're researching a college or a university, it's very important in your supplemental perhaps to demonstrate your understanding of that specific school that will help you to stand out in the overall application. So Dean Phillips, we really appreciate that insight. I thought that was awesome. And I was curious, are there any common mistakes that students make when applying to the University of Wisconsin-Madison and how can they avoid them?

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure. As you probably have discovered, writing is thematic for me. And if we had more time, obviously, we could talk about that. But here's what's a common mistake. And it doesn't completely scuttle a student's prospects. But in a competitive applicant pool, it could make a difference. So number one, in responding to the Common App's extended essay. Students should always think about before writing, what are they going to write about? How will they introduce it? What's in the body of information? And the most important, I think, is how do you then draw it to a conclusion? In other words, imagine your reader being really excited that you're going to write about the history of white-sox baseball. White Sox baseball has a beginning. It has a checkered early history. It was an exciting moment. But for the most part, as an organization, the club hasn't had the best record. Now, how do you talk about that? Because you could excite a reader, obviously, by how you might start. You can tell some interesting stories about the Black Sox and the scandals and ownership and all of those things. You might even write about a broadcaster who lived to have extraordinary fame near the end of an interesting career, but it wasn't with the White Sox. It could have been, because this announcer started out on one side of town becoming famous on the other side of town. I digress, but my point is this. None of that will land if you don't draw it to a conclusion. And so when students are approaching their essay, they really should be thinking about a beginning, a body of information, and a conclusion that really answers what difference it makes. And so I think that is sitting in one. Here's the second. And there are lots of these points, but here's the second that really matters to me. You gotta have a good reason or a good set of reasons. Why? With over 3,000 choices in the continental United States and many more around the world, why on your list if you have three or five or seven or whatever number of schools you're applying to, why did this particular institution make that? And so being able to answer the internal why for an audience that's trying to get to know you in a relatively short period of time with only so many pages, only so many lines, that needs to stand out. So in other words, well, why would it's, I think about this as the why response. Have a good reason. And it's okay, as I said before, It's not about what you want to major in. It's not about what you want to be. It's why you would want to live in this community for the next four years and whatever that community might be. And if you say, really, because I want to go to the top of Bascom Hill, I want to take a lunch tray and slide down Bascom Hill during that first snowstorm, you might have some folks who would really appreciate that.

John Durante:

Well, that is also the importance of having a solid conclusion to your essay. What's the point basically, but Dean Phillips, as you put it, what difference does it make? So something that students and their parents should really reflect on when they're working on that part of the application. You also talked about having a really good reason to the question, why the University of Wisconsin-Madison? Answer the internal why. This really needs to stand out. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, where you gave the example of the student that truly demonstrated that understanding of the University of Wisconsin. In fact, you talked about it here today. So it's one that stood with you. So I think again, great advice for the students and their parents as they navigate through this process. So Dean Phillips, I also know that the University of Wisconsin, Madison, like many other schools is in fact test optional. Can you share the percentage of students that applied and who were ultimately admitted that did not submit their test scores?

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure, so we are completing our third cycle. And I'm looking at the wall because it's been so long. But here's what's important about the cycle this year as we look at, and I wanna say we're not done. So we don't yet know across those who chose not to submit their scores versus those who did. That's research and analysis that we will conduct later. But here's what we do know. Across an applicant pool that was north of 60,000 this year, 52% of our students in fact submitted test results. We anticipate as we... I want to say this carefully, as we move further away from the crisis that was COVID-19, that is not to say that COVID is over, it's not. We are still living through an endemic that at any moment could become a pandemic. But here's what we do know, students are back in school, in person. teaching opportunities are predominantly in person. We recognize that there are still online opportunities and in some ways as difficult as the period of the pandemic and the subsequent early days of the endemic, students are returning to a more and I put this in air quotes, normal in-person set of experiences, what comes along with that is access to testing amongst a number of things. And for institutions like mine and others that give students the option, it's likely the case that if little Andre, who shows up again here, if little Andre... does really well or feels really good about test results, Little Andre would want someone to look at those because that's a part of Little Andre's story. And so we anticipate that more students, even with the option to not have their scores included, will submit them. They feel good about their results and those results may suggest something. about their readiness to take on high-level collegiate coursework.

John Durante:

Well, we appreciate that insight, thank you so much, Dean Phillips. And I was also curious, what can you tell us about how the University of Wisconsin-Madison supports its students once they're admitted, both academically and socially?

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure, sure. Great question. I think first and foremost, there are multiple ways that colleges and universities create their learning environment. And I tip the fedora to my colleagues at our peer institutions for thinking about young people in... in the broadest possible context. I pointed to two things that I think resonate well here. Earlier I mentioned we have eight schools and colleges. Each of our schools and colleges have advising structures in place. I wanna focus on one effort within the College of Letters and Science. I mentioned earlier. that LNS, as it's affectionately known here, is the largest of our eight undergraduate schools and colleges. There is a program called the Center for Academic Excellence, or CAE and one of the ways that we, if you will, onboard and provide support for students in the Summer Collegiate Experience, or SCE. And that's an introductory way that students, particularly if they're students for whom they'll be the first ones off to university, off to college, can get it, if you will, and test run is not really fair, but can kind of test, if you will, test out, and what are the rules? How does this work? What would be, who's in place? And what... Well, that experience and then the center as a whole is saying to students, we're here for you. And here's where you can find tutorial resources if you need them. Here's where you can come if you need a quiet place to study, but mostly, and I pick on LNS and CAE, but these corners exist across campus. How do you create your own community? And it could be that you just need a community of folks who are from a small town like you're from, or you need a community from a big city. Again, one last plug for Chicago, you're from a big city. You could be from New York or you could be from LA or pick your big city. But within this environment, how do you create your university? community, so community within the university. And there are opportunities like that throughout the schools and colleges. They're not monolithic, they don't all function the same way, but they have at its core students first. And so how do we support our students? How do we cultivate our students? How do we help them navigate? a place that's big and it's dynamic and it's different and so that students don't get lost. We recognize that young people bring a great deal when they head off to university. That's certainly the case for us here, but we don't want them to be overwhelmed because as much as we know they bring talent and skills and dreams and aspirations, this is a big place. And if you don't know the rules, and even if you have some touch points, the rules might be different here. And so how do we make sure that students don't become overwhelmed by the place or, more concerning to me, begin to lose confidence? I think about this all the time, and I'll say this as one last thought. What do you do when you get punched in the nose? Because most of us early on in our collegiate career, and we've got the brim and we're ready to go and we walk into this class, and suddenly the plan that helped us be really successful in high school doesn't apply. And so we want our young people to not lose confidence. It's a thing that I've identified and experienced as a- as a frustrated baseball player, right? The minute you lose confidence, you can no longer hit the curveball. And if you can't hit the curveball, you're an easy out. And so I use that application to think about incoming first time, first year collegians and that first exam where they get punched in the nose and suddenly they start to look inward. And it is our responsibility. even as a big university, to make sure that we are there to support our young people, because we want to elevate their best talents, not to crush them.

John Durante:

Well, it sounds, as you said, as a big university that you have a lot of support in place to help all of your students. I want you to know, Dean Phillips, that I always put the Office of Undergraduate Admissions, in this case, obviously, it's the University of Wisconsin-Madison, in the show notes. If there are any other resources you want to provide students and their parents, please send them to me. And of course, I'll make them available in the show notes. I was also curious, what else can you tell us about any unique opportunities or programs that the University of Wisconsin-Madison offers its students such as internships or perhaps even study abroad opportunities?

Andre E. Phillips:

Great. Thank you for that. I work very closely with the International Studies Office. And I say this, and I'm very careful when I say this. Foreign study is not for every student. Foreign study sometimes is not for every young student. It's probably they may need some time to, as Coach once said to me, you haven't yet grown into your shoes. That was a nice way for him saying, no, you don't get to start. But anyway, because you can't hit the curveball. But that's another, that's conversation for another time. But the important thing. I think for some young people, they are ready for a foreign exchange experience. And there are a variety of ways to do so on our campus, as is the case on a number of campuses. One of the programs I'm particularly excited about is the London Start program. We do things where some students can start during the summer before the fall. We have an opportunity to send some students. off to London and they spend their first term there. But those are students who, they have to apply, they need to show a degree of readiness and we have ways to identify. So there are those opportunities, there are opportunities for something here called SuccessWorks, where students may already be thinking about my career beyond being an undergraduate. I salute students who are thinking four years into the future, unlike many of us who are just trying to figure out how to get to the holidays? So I can head back home for some good home cooking. But across the spectrum, where it all starts for me, and I say this selfishly, but I believe it's applicable. At many of our peer institutions, students need to have a game plan. And it needn't be a complicated plan. I would make the argument that the best way to think about it is, okay, how many semesters will I have? You don't have a lot. You probably have eight, maybe nine. You might have seven, or hopefully seven, not less than that. But some students are well advanced, whatever you have, you need a game plan. And the game plan needs to start the day after you make the wise decision to enroll at UW-Madison. That's a shameless plug, I will admit it.

John Durante:

Ha Ha

Andre E. Phillips:

But it really starts with, okay, I'm gonna accept my offer of admission, I've worked on my resident life, my housing application. Now it really starts. I'm gonna meet with my advisor or an advisor sometime in June or July before I ever start. Now, how am I gonna use that and meet that all important meeting to set my schedule? Gotta have a game plan. And so my advice for students in really thinking about where they should be, what they should be thinking about is do I have a game plan? Option A, and then Option B, and how flexible am I? It's important for young people, as successful as they have been, to also imagine for a moment what if it doesn't work out? Do I have another plan to turn to, and what would that look like?

John Durante:

Well, that's great insight and tremendous advice. And Dean Phillips, this has been an outstanding conversation. Unfortunately, it does lead us to our last question, but before I ask you that question, I was curious, is there a question that I didn't ask or a topic that didn't come up in this conversation that you wish to share with us now?

Andre E. Phillips:

So thank you for that. So there is always the all-important follow-up question. And I'm going to spend a quick second on this if you don't mind.

John Durante:

Absolutely.

Andre E. Phillips:

I say this respectfully, and maybe I'll say this because I've been doing this for a long time. I think my brethren who are in the admissions profession, we've probably heard all of the questions before. But I gotta tell you, what we probably haven't heard is the follow-up question to the answer you just got. And so, I would always encourage the follow-up question to the response that someone in my position would give. And it could be something as simple as, why do you say that? Right, you've heard me talk a fair amount about baseball. So you probably know why I talk about baseball. At this point, even if you didn't know the team I rooted for, and so I think it's applicable then to really think about that in the admissions space. Why would that admissions person respond in that way? That being said, I think very quickly, and this is an important one, and unfortunately it doesn't appear as if we have enough time. But I think it's really important for families to talk about the fiscal side of this ledger. And this is having no sense of whether or not families can write the check without blinking or some institutional or governmental support might need to be involved. But understand that this is a purchase decision. I'm going off to university and I got admitted and I have choices. This is finally, when you pull the shades down, this is for many families, a fiscal decision. And the sooner families are talking about or understanding the context of the cost of college, the cost of university. I think the better families are at the point that decisions are made. So the last point, and think about this, most students these days are, or some number of students are applying under some sort of early plan, early decision. We're not early decision, we're early action. So students still have a choice. Whatever the case may be, but the window to finally choose. It's pretty short. And if you apply under the regular, it's shorter still. And so costs suddenly for some families rise as a top priority, or really affordability. Can we afford to send Lelandre off to his dream school? He was fortunate enough to get admitted. He's happier than we've ever seen him. And we don't want to disappoint Lil' Ina. But my goodness, did you see the price tag? And so I think that's a question, again, maybe not for this conversation, but that's an arena that families should think about sooner rather than later.

John Durante:

Well, I appreciate that. And one of the points of a podcast like this is that for students and families that listen to the conversation, hopefully it prompts them to have, as you put it, those follow-up questions, higher order thinking questions for when they see you or a colleague, whether it's on campus or at a college fair. So we really appreciate that. And this has been terrific. Dean Phillips, the last question is what are your top three pieces of advice? You will provide a student. and their families getting ready for the college admissions process.

Andre E. Phillips:

Sure. Let me say before I respond, thank you so very much for, just doing this podcast because I think as you likely are aware, you're providing information to lots of students and families to help them navigate what can be a daunting process. So I commend you and keep doing this.

John Durante:

Thank you.

Andre E. Phillips:

I could give you nine, I'm gonna give you three. And I think the number one tip to families, to parents, to students, and even those who support young people, number one, exhale. This process is fraught with things, and I will say respectfully, there are lots of experts, and there are lots of folks who... who, you know, they're mixing up the ingredients to ensure success. And that's, dare I say, that's probably not where you want to start. You really want to start with, why are you doing this? Why do you want to go to college? Right? And maybe it's because that's just what our family has always done. We've gone to college. Or maybe... It's because someone saw something in me that maybe I still don't see. But know why you're doing this as a starting point. After you've had a long walk around the block and you've managed to exhale and you're relaxed and you have your nerves under control, which leads to the third and final thing I would say. approach this process from a position of happiness. Let me talk about that for just a quick second. If you're nervous, or you're trying to, you know, I don't know if I'm saying the right, if you're trying to figure out the right sentence, or like what are they looking for, and you, then you're likely not going to put your best foot forward. And this leads to confidence, which I believe leads to happiness. Understand in this process that there are schools and UW Madison is one of those places where we have more qualified students than we have seats that we could put them in. So do not take it personally if you don't get offered one of those seats. And I'm talking about the UW, but it could be any number of places. Don't internalize, don't make it personal. Or as I've had to engage with a few parents since our decision release, and the question has been, what did we miss? What did my kid not do? as if it's one thing, it is not one thing in this process. And I think you said earlier, which is really important, it could be something that's completely out of your control. And quite frankly, and I have had this experience, something comes up in the middle of the school year that no one was thinking about that causes institutions to shift course. And certainly, if you're reading a brochure from three years ago, the landscape has changed. And so control what you can. Don't worry about what you can’t. And whatever the decision is, particularly if it's not favorable or what you had hoped for, do not take it personally.

John Durante:

We really appreciate those pieces of advice, the insight. Dean Phillips, this has been tremendous. I'm so happy as I know it's going to help so many students and their parents as they navigate through the college admissions process. You are awesome, and I hope to have you again, Dean Phillips. Thank you so much.

Andre E. Phillips:

You're very welcome. Thank you.